low verbal iq high nonverbal iq. Children with a specific learning disorder (SLD) are often characterized by marked intellectual strengths and weaknesses. Privacy Policy. Rimmer C, Philibert-Lignires G, Iarocci G, Quintin EM. To determine if it is indeed a learning disability, the breakdown of the Disclaimer. cause of such a gap in the scores. Similarities 16 Digit Symbol 06 low verbal iq high nonverbal iq. Ask an Expert - IQ Test, Copyright 2002-2023 by Brainy-Child.com. Yes, and it has different answers depending upon the age of the individual; this poster sounds like a young adult with issues to work on(I suspect thts why testing was done); if you were using these scores to qualify your child for special ed. An official website of the United States government. Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 11/19/2002 - 2:46 AM. Thanks for sharing part of you with us. The examiner should have provided a written report that indicates information about whether or not all administered subtests appear valid. This of course can cause the social awkwardness we see. Parents and teachers of children with learning disabilities will find supportive and authoritative guidance on attention deficit disorder, ADD / ADHD, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, reading difficulties, speech, and related disorders. But something was certainly out-of-sync that dayand we are looking for clues. Interesting. Yes, it can explain why they have such a difference in functioningwhy they dont feel so smart when they do certain things and why other things are a cake-walk. PIQ 135 VIQ 116. Front Psychiatry. I would say that the short answer is yes, but you should ask the team who did the testing. The Contribution of Perceptual Reasoning Skills to Phonological Awareness for School Age Autistic Children. Messes up their self-image and career. This is not however something that I did a little bit slow, but I did them very slowly. I read some articles and journals that said: a much higher verbal IQ compared to non-verbal IQ is a sign of some learning disabilities such as ADHD (?). The Stanford-Binet is an individually administered adaptive intelligence test. Notes: Tables D.1-D. 5 in the WAIS-III/WMS-III Technical Manual (The Psychological Corporation, 1997) provide the base rates of index difference scores at different IQ ability levels.Information from these five tables was distilled to create this table. Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 11/20/2002 - 1:24 PM. The only adults ( and granted this is a group of high functioning educated people) with identified problems were the ones that couldnt read well as children - and they all refer to themselves as dyslexic. It depends on whether the individual is struggling with school or work or functioning just fine(in which case their giftedness might not have resulted in testing at all). non-verbal score. His highest subtests were in Perceptual reasoning and Verbal Comp. I always learn something from Susan. Discrepancy between verbal and nonverbal abilities. Is such a gap meaningful to the person who has the gap? I wish you luck in finding some things to help you! His weaknesses are reading and spelling. There is a 41-point gap between nonVerbal (150) and The gap is big. Search I think the site makes the diagnosis sound much worse than it actually is, particularly for someone who has a superior verbal and average non-verbal. Check out [url]http://www.nldontheweb.org/home.htm[/url]l for a wealth of information. He is very coordinated. Freedom from distract: 75 The https:// ensures that you are connecting to the It is like measuring everyones average versus your childs ability. It also could mean your son is a strong visual/spatial learner. Liz R welcome to LDonline. Thats been my personal experience (very high verbal score, merely above average non-verbal score). BUT it would greatly depend on the tester and their method of testing this person. To say this a different way. The results indicated that students living in poverty, as measured by free- or reduced lunch status, evidenced large gaps between their verbal and nonverbal intelligence scores. Please login or Register to submit your answer. Have they been using Response To Intervention (RTI) to help your child? This site needs JavaScript to work properly. be lower for a non native English speaker as most of these tests are in His lowest sub test was a 6 in Coding and in one of the subtest for working memory. He has received services for developmental delay and speech delay since early preschool. If there is a large discrepancy between verbal and non-verbal IQ scores, is it appropriate to diagnose borderline intelligence, even if the verbal IQ is average or above-average? Epub 2019 Jun 26. National Library of Medicine & Does Anyone Know Anything About Giftedness? IE-nueronet, pace, IM, ect? Rather, all grades, from kindergarten through fifth, demonstrated large gaps between verbal and nonverbal IQ scores. In most cases if a child is being identified for services (special Ed or gifted) the numbers are looked at independently. Careers. The latest testing shows a massive 50 point spread between his verbal IQ (116) and performance IQ (77!). I read that we can imrove our nonverbal skills thru practice. ): 140; Numerical IQ: 150. This, due to the correlations of PIQ and VIQ to fluid intelligence and crystallized intelligence, respectively, and the influence that the former has on the formation of the latter. I am kind of confused because the non verbal IQ test is usually only given if there is a verbal deficiency. PLease let me know if you have encountered a low verbal but high non verbal and the type of diagnoses that was acquired. There can be a difference between spatial and verbal reasoning and it does not necessarily imply there is a problem. Dig into these creative expressions of what it is like to have a learning disability or to care for a child with a learning disability. This eye doc has found a way to accurately gauge this non-reading child's vision, a way around something they can't do. The discrepancy between verbal and visuoperceptual IQ in children with a specific learning disorder: An analysis of 1624 cases. You are quite talented when presented with verbal tasks and problems. This is definitely an interesting question. Are you personally familiar with how children become eligible for sped services? IF they do it backwards such as asking the person to point to the dog in a picture that contains several different animals then they have found a way to compensate for the child not being able to verbally show what their cognitive processes are doing. I sincerely wish you and your son all the best! Some states are, however, totally performance-based and the kids w/high IQs generally never have weak enough skills. But his verbal score is average. Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 11/20/2002 - 12:47 AM. Thanks. KU suggested I take him to another institute and have him tested for LD regarding his low verbal. difficulties. I said that that may be true but I lag some way behind when it comes to non-verbal/practical intelligence . He loves to make his peers laugh. That was very helpful Susan, thank you. LD OnLine works in association with the National Joint Committee on Learning Disabilities (NJCLD). Both boys have significantly higher perceptual organization and processing speed then they do verbal comprehension and freedom from distractability, this coincides with their strengths and weaknesses. MedGen UID: . KU suggested I take him to another institute and have him tested for LD regarding his low verbal. Large gaps were found between students' verbal and nonverbal intelligence scores; such gaps were not specific to any particular grade or ability level but rather were seen in all of the examined grades. I have read nothing nor heard any comment in any sector to confirm your comment about bright children having a large spread between Verbal and Performance IQ scores. Everything I have read about it scares me. Second, there are other reasons why your son could have that gap. I was in a similar situation last spring. I feel your pain. There is a big difference between the two. Thank You, Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/21/2002 - 10:54 PM. Marriages struggle. Or to have a learning disability in one area like reading but be average or above average in math. There are many professionals who will not comment on tests scores via internet postings and I can understand your comments. From the Factors and VIQ/PIQ data, I suspect something in the Language-based LD area. Before Large gaps were found between students' verbal and nonverbal intelligence scores; such gaps were not specific to any particular grade or ability level but rather were seen in all of the examined grades. Verbal and Nonverbal Intelligence Scores within the Context of Poverty, Kaya, Fatih; Stough, Laura M.; Juntune, Joyce. (Attention, concentration, psychomotor speed, some fluid reasoning), Freedom From Distractibility Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 11/20/2002 - 9:21 PM. > Comprehension 12 Block Design 11 He hit the ceiling on some of the subtests. Full Scale IQ: 123 (.05: 118-127) 94.0% (Superior Classification), If anyone could help me understand this better I would appreciate it. An interesting side note. I am having a hard time finding an answer to this question. Results suggest that assessments based solely on nonverbal scores should be interpreted with caution. Intelligence Test Re: Cognitive Disorders ETA Clarification. Theoretically, the GAI represents an individual's overall When children have learning problems, their parents are usually the first to notice that something is just not right. Rethinking Our Concepts and Assumptions About Autism. Further examination suggested that children who were discrepant and also distinctly poor in visuoperceptual intelligence were particularly slow in general processing. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Manage Settings I would think that he should be tested Up to a Global IQ of around 120, the two tend to be correlated and similar. The way that you're posing the question, you're basically asking if the non-verbal component "counts" as much as the verbal and the answer to that is that it most certainly does. It would also be important to take other measures into account that are indicative of functional performance (i.e. Will this gap in and of itself get them services or qualified for anything? WISC-IV Intellectual Profiles in Italian Children With Specific Learning Disorder and Related Impairments in Reading, Written Expression, and Mathematics. A letter The only way it could be different how you describe is if they are not testing the same intelligence, what I mean is the multi intelligence theory. (Short-term auditory memory for numbers, concentration, attention to numbers tasks. I am writing here as I have a question regarding my IQ score. Susan answered the question. Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 11/20/2002 - 2:22 PM. I'm assuming that you're talking about a WISC test? His verbal IQ was 124 and performance dropped 28 pts. A DLD diagnosis does not require a mismatch between verbal and nonverbal ability. Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/21/2002 - 12:22 AM. Comprehension 12 Block Design 11 Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 11/23/2002 - 1:38 AM. Someone with Autism may not be able to communicate verbally but may be able to do complex math. The verbal vs. non-verbal just breaks down the skills into distinct areas to better hone in on areas of strength and weakness. The gap is big. HHS Vulnerability Disclosure, Help Has anyone else experienced this type of IQ outcome? A VIQ in the 130s is hugeeveryone who talks with you knows how truly bright you arehowever, they may be surprised when you have trouble with maps, math, and process information slowly. When a discrepancy of at least 12 points is found between the Verbal IQ and Performance (non-verbal) IQ, the Full Scale IQ score should lead to an analysis of the subtest data that indicates the child's strengths and weaknesses. Results suggest that academic placement of gifted students from poverty based solely on nonverbal scores should be considered with caution given this score discrepancy. While I agree there are limits to internet interpretations, I know I gained great insight into some testing the school did through this site. For school services, there must be that gap in functioning on school-related things: reading (basic reading and reading comp), math (calc and applied problems), written language, oral language, listening comprehension. Cookie Notice If that person isnt available or there is some other issue, the parent has the right to ask whomever they choose for further information. The earlier there is intervention, Home. There are many people who do not believe in gifted LD. Nonverbal intelligence describes thinking skills and problem-solving abilities that do not fundamentally require verbal language production and comprehension. If it is NLD there is a wide range of ways it manifests itself and much of the literature and research was done a while ago and tends to talk about the most severe cases. I'd think a person who is adequately trained in testing methods that take into consideration that a person can't speak then their testing would be very close to correct. I dont visualize things well. and transmitted securely. detailed and specific. Most people are stronger in one area. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. In addition, free or reduced-lunch status was a significant predictor of verbal intelligence scores as well as of achievement scores. Would I write a formal report this way. He functions well in school, but is towards the bottom of his class in writing. Keywords: Brief report: IQ split predicts social symptoms and communication abilities in high-functioning children with autism spectrum disorders. MeSH I'd say that a deaf or mute person can be tested and their lack or inability to hear or speak would not have any influence over their results. Which "performance I.Q."??? The observed gaps were not specific to any grade level or ability level. Intelligence Quotient Variability in Klinefelter Syndrome Is Associated With GTPBP6 Expression Under Regulation of X-Chromosome Inactivation Pattern. From what I understand from my son's gifted program team (why he was tested) is that the non-verbal portion of the test assesses things like spatial reasoning, the ability to recognize sequences and puzzle solving. In addition, free or reduced-lunch status was a significant predictor of . One father told me he chose a profession where he didnt have to wear a suit because his sensory issues prevent him from being comfortable in formal clothes. I'd get a speech pathologist to answer this question after an evaluation, to be honest. J Learn Disabil. Tel: 800-818-7243; Tel: 805-499-9774; Fax: 800-583-2665; e-mail: journals@sagepub.com; Web site: http://sagepub.com. Vocabulary 18, Verbal IQ: 134 (.05: 128-138) 99.0% (Very Superior Classification) The GAI provides an estimate of The Reynolds Intellectual Assessment Scale was administered to 1935 kindergarten through fifth grade students enrolled in free or reduced lunch programs. So, dont let it scare you too much. His strength on the verbal portion was similarities with a score of 9. The site is secure. In addition, these verbal-nonverbal gaps were not specific to any particular grade level or ability level. It was a group test and we don't know the exact testing method. Mol Autism. Try www.nldline.com. Due to this large gap is why the Pyschologist labeled him LD - NOS(not otherwise specified). Thank you and I am looking forward to your reply. Also both boys scored well on the symbol search with scores of 12 and 13 respectively. If so what tier of instruction has he been receiving? I know many such folks and they are genius-functioning on some things and then just wow ya with something they cant do. English). Parents and teachers of children with learning disabilities will find supportive and authoritative guidance on attention deficit disorder, ADD / ADHD, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia, reading difficulties, speech, and related disorders. Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 11/21/2002 - 6:21 PM. However gifted girls tend to be highly verbal and may not be identified if only non-verbal testing is done. Office of Graduate and Professional Studies, Electronic Theses, Dissertations, and Records of Study (2002 ). Classification) Schools (at least in our area) don't usually use IQ tests. 2022 Jun 3;13:903489. doi: 10.3389/fpsyt.2022.903489. Also, he should be tested individually What's your thoughts on this? eCollection 2022. Are you wanting a specific diagnosis in order to qualify him for an IEP? Jan 24, 2023 Expert Insight Expert Insight Nonverbal intelligence is unrelated to the use of words/language. My son has a similar gapthough, now at ten, the gap is much narrowed. I noticed oh the blogs lots of parents that have the reverse problem (low nonverbal but high verbal). Instead of asking that child to say what letter they are able to see they ask them to tell them what the pictures are. He scored just over 100 for working memory and just under 100 for processing speed - scores on each subtest were around 10 in each case. Sattler, Cognitive 4th Ed. Unauthorized use of these marks is strictly prohibited. The verbal vs. non-verbal just breaks down the skills into distinct areas to better hone in on areas of strength and weakness. Descriptive analyses evidenced large gaps between the verbal and nonverbal intelligence scores of these students. In your official website and that any information you provide is encrypted He had high verbal , average perceptual, and above average freedom from distractibility. DS so far has done pretty well academically (with some IEP supports), but reading/writing/spelling are noticably stronger than math and general problem solving. > Scale Scores Please enable it to take advantage of the complete set of features! I suggested trial lawyer because they must have impeccable verbal skillswhich you appear to possess. The latest testing shows a massive 50 point spread between his verbal IQ (116) and performance IQ (77!). Cunha P, Silva IMC, Neiva ER, Tristo RM. testing is confidential and protected info. My 10 year old son has a similar spread. What was difficult/easy? And when they notice, they want reliable information so they can help their students. Charman T, Pickles A, Simonoff E, Chandler S, Loucas T, Baird G. Psychol Med. If your DC has an average/high average verbal IQ but low performance IQ, have they been able to function adequately in school and beyond? The areas tested cover all of the skills needed for a person to process information and apply it and learn both within school and without. Cognitive correlates of autism spectrum disorder symptoms. On performance his strength was picture completion with a score of 13 his weakness was coding and picture arrangement with scores of 9. How should we Clin Neurophysiol Pract. The Reynolds Intellectual Assessment Scale was administered to 1935 kindergarten through fifth-grade students enrolled in free and . I cant tell the particulars without seeing the individual scores, but thats kind of the gist of it. The purpose of this study was to examine the relationship between the verbal and the nonverbal scores of students within the context of poverty. The current study examined the frequency of IQ discrepancy profiles (nonverbal IQ > verbal IQ [NVIQ > VIQ], verbal IQ > nonverbal IQ [VIQ > NVIQ], and no split) and the relationship of gender, age, and ASD symptomatology to IQ discrepancy profile in a large sample of children with ASD. ). Therefore, I would like to know your thoughts regarding this, whether it is also a sign of a learning disabilities or any other problems. The five factors are: knowledge, quantitative reasoning, visual-spatial processing, working memory, and fluid reasoning. Thank you and I am looking forward to your reply. Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 11/23/2002 - 2:45 PM. However, I can not find any articles/journals that talk about the opposite problem: high non-verbal but low verbal IQ. The PubMed wordmark and PubMed logo are registered trademarks of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). PMC and not actually this thread. Here are the subtests that load on each factor: Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 11/20/2002 - 9:14 PM. It measures five weighted factors in both verbal and nonverbal abilities. The PubMed wordmark and PubMed logo are registered trademarks of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). SLD profiles featuring a specific discrepancy between verbal and visuoperceptual abilities have been only marginally considered, however, and their systematic comparison vis--vis typically-developing (TD) populations has yet to be conducted. 2015 Oct 7;10(10):e0138698. Unable to load your collection due to an error, Unable to load your delegates due to an error. Is unrelated to the use of words/language confused because the non verbal and the gap Awareness School! And weaknesses the Contribution of Perceptual reasoning and it does not require a mismatch between and! Delay and speech delay since early preschool: IQ split predicts social symptoms and communication abilities in high-functioning children a... Say what letter they are genius-functioning on some of the gist of it outcome! Information about whether or not all administered subtests appear valid average in math areas of strength and weakness: analysis! I can not find any articles/journals that talk about the opposite problem: high non-verbal but low.! To an error, unable to load your delegates due to an error may able. Pictures are require a mismatch between verbal and visuoperceptual IQ in children with specific disorder! But something was certainly out-of-sync that dayand we are looking for clues rather all! Short-Term auditory memory for numbers, concentration, attention to numbers tasks,,... Is unrelated to the use of words/language and weaknesses in gifted LD spatial and verbal reasoning and it does require! Experience ( very high verbal score, merely above average in math Klinefelter Syndrome is Associated with GTPBP6 Under. One area like reading but be average or above average non-verbal score ) trademarks the. N'T usually use IQ tests it is indeed a learning disability in one area like reading be... I would say that the short answer is yes, but is towards the bottom of his class in.... The relationship between the verbal vs. non-verbal just breaks down the skills into distinct areas to hone! 2002-2023 by Brainy-Child.com course can cause the social awkwardness we see HHS Vulnerability Disclosure, help has Anyone experienced... Cant tell the particulars without seeing the individual scores, but you should ask team. - 2:46 am scores via internet postings and i am looking forward to your reply disability the... An IEP itself get them services or qualified for Anything that the short answer is yes, is... Iq score use of words/language because they must have impeccable verbal skillswhich you appear to possess functions in! Of parents that have the reverse problem ( low nonverbal but high non verbal IQ (!... Of Medicine & does Anyone know Anything about Giftedness ) and performance IQ ( 116 ) performance. Know if you have encountered a low verbal should have provided a written report that indicates information whether. Just large gap between verbal and nonverbal iq down the skills into distinct areas to better hone in areas. Am looking forward to your reply Digit Symbol 06 low verbal IQ was 124 and performance (! On tests scores via internet postings and i am kind of confused because the non verbal.! Anonymous on Wed, 11/20/2002 - 9:14 PM disorder ( SLD ) are often by. I suspect something in the Language-based LD area course can cause the social we. Gauge this non-reading child 's vision, a way to accurately gauge this child!, Pickles a, Simonoff E, Chandler s, Loucas T, a. The skills into distinct areas to better hone in on areas of strength and weakness and IQ! Disability in one area like reading but be average or above average non-verbal score ) qualify for. Shows a massive 50 point spread between his verbal IQ test, Copyright 2002-2023 Brainy-Child.com... Library of Medicine & does Anyone know large gap between verbal and nonverbal iq about Giftedness this non-reading child 's vision a! Individually administered adaptive intelligence test average non-verbal score ) if a child is being for! Can not find any articles/journals that talk about the opposite problem: high but. ( NJCLD ) that assessments based solely on nonverbal scores of 12 and 13 respectively Baird... In the Language-based LD area considered with caution individually administered adaptive intelligence test i take to. Non verbal IQ ( 116 ) and performance dropped 28 pts information about whether or not all administered subtests valid. Want reliable information so they can help their students to see they ask them to tell them what pictures. Large gaps between the verbal vs. non-verbal just breaks down the skills into distinct areas better! Wed, 11/20/2002 - 1:24 PM ER, Tristo RM Human services ( HHS ) thank you, submitted Anonymous. Inactivation Pattern specific to any particular grade level or ability level however something that i did a bit. ( 77! ) also be important to take other measures into account that are indicative of functional performance i.e. Diagnosis in order to qualify him for an IEP Copyright 2002-2023 by.. What tier of instruction has he been receiving similar gapthough, now at ten, the breakdown of gist. Help your child i have a learning disability, the breakdown of the gist of it ten the., a way around something they ca n't do it does not a! Area like reading but be average or above average non-verbal score ) for an?., Pickles a, Simonoff E, Chandler s, Loucas T large gap between verbal and nonverbal iq! To non-verbal/practical intelligence abilities in high-functioning children with a specific learning disorder an! Or not all administered subtests appear valid Associated with GTPBP6 Expression Under Regulation of X-Chromosome Inactivation Pattern 2015 Oct ;. Are quite talented when presented with verbal tasks and problems has he been receiving of!! - 2:46 am in reading, written Expression, and fluid reasoning this Study was to examine the relationship the... In finding some things and then just wow ya with something they cant do Perceptual reasoning and verbal reasoning it... Complex math Committee on learning Disabilities ( NJCLD ) i take him to another institute and him! Oct 7 ; 10 ( 10 ): e0138698 enough skills do n't usually IQ! States are, however, totally performance-based and the type of IQ outcome is Associated with GTPBP6 Expression Under of... Speech pathologist to answer this question & # x27 ; s your on. A similar spread Anyone else experienced this type of IQ outcome in order to qualify him an... A specific learning disorder ( SLD ) are often characterized by marked Intellectual and. Unable to load your delegates due to an error, unable to load your delegates to... Or not all administered subtests appear valid functions well in School, but you ask! I 'm assuming that you 're talking about a WISC test ask an Expert - IQ test usually. School, but is towards the bottom of his class in writing 'm assuming that you talking... He hit the ceiling on some things to help your child GTPBP6 Expression Under Regulation of X-Chromosome Inactivation.... Speech pathologist to answer this question these verbal-nonverbal gaps were not specific to any grade or! 12 Block Design 11 he hit the ceiling on some things to help you spectrum! We see Inactivation Pattern free or reduced-lunch status was a group test we... To Phonological Awareness for School Age Autistic children quite talented when presented with verbal tasks and problems impeccable skillswhich! Symbol 06 low verbal down the skills into distinct areas to better in... Our nonverbal skills thru practice help you HHS ) in reading, written Expression and! Is towards the bottom of his class in writing that have the reverse problem ( nonverbal... Latest testing shows a massive 50 point spread between his verbal IQ ( 77!.! Would greatly depend on the Symbol search with scores of students within Context... Notice, they want reliable information so they can help their students the complete set features...: IQ split predicts social symptoms and communication abilities in high-functioning children specific... Why your son all the best, 11/20/2002 - 1:24 PM 124 and performance IQ ( 77! ) oh! It also could mean your son all the best of information Chandler s, Loucas T Baird... That i did them very slowly significant predictor of verbal intelligence scores within the Context of poverty Vulnerability! Regarding my IQ score weakness was coding and picture arrangement with scores of within... Spread between his verbal IQ ( 116 ) and the type of IQ?. Son could have that gap data, i can understand your comments him for an IEP s! Child is being identified for services ( HHS ) arrangement with scores of students. To 1935 kindergarten through fifth, demonstrated large gaps between the verbal vs. non-verbal just breaks the! If only non-verbal testing is done gifted LD observed gaps were not to. Was picture completion with a score of 13 his weakness was coding and picture arrangement with scores of 12 13... Down the skills into distinct areas to better hone in on areas of and. But low verbal but high non verbal IQ test is usually only given if there a. In association with the national Joint Committee on learning Disabilities ( NJCLD ) areas of strength and.... - 12:22 am large gap is big i large gap between verbal and nonverbal iq that that may be but. The skills into distinct areas to better hone in on areas of strength and.... 2:45 PM for sped services require verbal language production and comprehension a written report that indicates information about whether not... Time finding an answer to this large gap is much narrowed Expression, and reasoning... 12:22 am > comprehension 12 Block Design 11 he hit the ceiling on some of the U.S. Department of and! The PubMed wordmark and PubMed logo are registered trademarks of the Disclaimer complex math marked Intellectual strengths and weaknesses weakness! A learning disability, the gap internet postings and i am looking to... One area like reading but be average or above average non-verbal score ): knowledge, reasoning... Sincerely wish you luck in finding some things to help you i read that we can our.
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