That's it? So, right around 1900. Of course normally just have one experimenter who's giving you these instructions. You can see this in the surveys that the men filled out after the experiments were over. The Bad Show Publication date Mon, 09 Jan 2012 05:00:00 +0000 We wrestle with the dark side of human nature, and ask whether it's something we can ever really understand, or fully escape. It's about how far would these people go. Nice job? If this is the singular moment in Shakespeare where he gives you un-understandably evil man. He won't answer. And in the other room, there was a guy, who he called the learner, who was supposed to have memorized some words. And you like her. Stanley Milgram took electric shock very seriously. If this is the singular moment in Shakespeare where he gives you an un-understandably evil man, no motives, no reason; any idea what the hell he was intending? This is just somebody who's performing brain surgery without anesthesia on other people. We, as onlookers to this study, we have this kind of godlike sort of vision of like, "Well, of course, what they're doing is wrong." When you press one of these switches all the way down, the learner gets a shock. Because the thing that you put into the ground to grow more food is also the thing you can explode to make a bomb? So, during World War I Haber's institute had developed a formulation of, um, insect killing gas called zyklon. There's something deeply, deeply wounding, stressing, upsetting a thought that he had anything to do with Zyklon B, but he did. "It's okay to admit this, you need to admit this.". But we will do it on our own if we think it's good.". And shortly after his return, Clara, allegedly, confronts him and says, "Look, you are morally bankrupt. ", "We'll basically bring it to the front and when the- when the wind is right, we'll just spray it.". Under extreme, extreme pressure. The reason why he's telling all this stuff is because he has cut a deal. Like, saying like, "I don't want to kill a guy.". It's all right. And I think what we want out of the why is meaning, meaning to life to reveal itself in a way that restores order and give us hope that all of this isn't just meaningless chaos. But the questions in the air, at the time, were very real. Go to audible.com/radiolab or text Radiolab to 500500 for a free 30-day trial and a few audiobook. You're not the first one. Just a little glimmer. All right. Yes, this is one of the things that sparked my interest in the topic of murder. I mean-. Okay. And so, Satan basically systematically destroys Job's life, takes away his wife, his children, all his material possessions. You know, what does he say? Speaking with Carol's mom, Carol's little daughter-, Killed her. And as it happens, my father has very vivid memories of investigating the Carol Christensen murder. To feed about 30 million people. I just needed to kill because of that. They continued shocking their corpses. "The experiment requires that you continue.". We don't exactly know why. It is a fair question to ask, "What are the conditions under which you, or me, or any of us could do-. You- I mean, I'm not suggesting one should, but I'm just saying there is a sense in which these people are prepared to do something that's very painful to them and to someone else because they want to promote science. The participants that are there in this study-. She was a- I knew she had a daughter in the last [crosstalk 01:01:03]. And we end with the story of a man who chased one of the most prolific serial killers in US history, then got a chance to ask him the question that had haunted him for years: why? Yeah, I agree with that. I thought about grabbing a knife quickly and stabbing him in the chest repeatedly until he was dead. Look, the participants, it's not just blind obedience, "Oh you tell me so, yes sir, no sir, three bags full, sir.". He has a pot belly. And he wrote this graphic novel that I read about one of the most prolific serial killers in U.S. history; Gary Leon Ridgeway, the Green River Killer. I'm going to give you a little, uh (laughing). You know what's going to happen if she pisses you off. Now what you need to understand about Alex Haslem is that he hates it when interviewers only want to talk about the baseline study. Visit rocketmortgage.com/radiolab. Then suddenly the thought occurred to me that my life would be much happier without him in existence.". Radiolab is supported by Casper. The authoritative record of New York Public Radios programming is the audio record. Our fact checker's Michelle Harris because facts matter. And she said, "My ex boyfriend. I think I call it [prince-nez 00:28:23], so I'm not sure. He said that if I ever had a relationship with another man, he was going to send videos of us having sex to all the people in my university. God, 'cause it's like we started with this experiment that we all see as evidence of human's latent capacity of evil. So wait. Science. Eventually Iago convinces Othello that his wife has been disloyal, which hasn't. I mean-, So again, the baseline study is the one where 65 percent of the volunteers-, But in experiment number three, if they put the shock-ee in the same room-, With the shocker so the shocker could actually see the person that he's shocking-. But I mean, he's up to 195 volts. We need to put it under a lot of pressure. My point is sometimes when we ask the why in the face of profound evil, I kind of wonder if what we're doing is that we're daring God to show himself. My dorsal hair stood up when I read the end of this. Was it nice day? And later that night after the party Haber takes a bunch of sleeping pills 'cause he's asleep, um, and she takes his service revolver. The subjects range in occupation from corporation presidents to good [inaudible 00:12:29] and plumbers. New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. [inaudible 00:06:31], Well not horrified, it was I pretty stunned. And give up the few details that they really needed to link him certifiably to all his crimes. The subjects of 40 males between the ages of 20 and 50. At high temperature. That's radio producer Ben Walker. Gary is dancing around this topic, Gary had denied this to his own lawyers. Yeah. in this episode we begin with a chilling statistic: 91% of men, and 84% of women, have fantasized about killing someone. It was about how far would these people go? I'm going to resign.". A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of. How could you? God. You know what? Hi, my name's Josh and I'm calling from Harlem, New York. His was the first generation when a young Jewish boy could truly imagine that he could just be a regular part of that society. Now we don't actually know if he threw a party. All rights reserved. ", In Titus Andronicus, there's a character by the name of Aaron the Moor-, And there's a moment in the play where Aaron gets up on stage, looks at the audience and says, "Let me just tell you the kinds of things I've been up to recently.". Let me- let me jump just, uh, a quote in front of me. But if looked at from another perspective, there's a sense in which you could celebrate what they're doing. Look. Well, actually the one thing that the study really doesn't show is that people obey orders. Um, I got a little, uh, I- my- this is my dorsal hair stood up when I read the end of this. He was doing his great science work right around the turn of the 20th century; so right around 1900. At this point, David's moved onto a new university and he's teaching an introductory psychology class. The questionnaires they filled out are part of the Milgram archive at Yale. Well, he started- he started fuming that his wife had- had dissed him. [inaudible 00:59:22] it's building up [inaudible 00:59:24]. Well, have you ever been blackmailed the way this woman was being blackmailed? He's part of the club and he really, really relished it. And the infinity of gray spaces in between. To find page after page of yeses. Go on please. They've got a very plausible, very credible, high status scientist at high status scientific institution. Read these words. ", In Titus Andronicus, there's a character by the name of-, There's a moment in the play when Aaron gets up on stage, looks at the audience and says, "Let me just tell you the kinds of things I've been up to recently. Oh, that right there, slap some quotations around that. Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is produced by Soren Wheeler. Or nice chair? Although once again we're getting a little ahead of ourselves. Iago. Then the executioner castrates you, cuts you open, and takes out your internal organs, and then, separates your head, which is put on a post. And I think what we want out of the why is meaning. In 2016, Abumrad took a four-month break from Radiolab, in large part to recharge from what he's described as burnout from the years of making the show in his distinctly intense and very. I was just astonished. And also a scientist. In Seattle today a man called the Green River killer-. And then she said, "I actually did this. And the way I killed her, I cared for her because I dated her for [inaudible 01:01:43]. Cruelty, violence, badness. This episode of Radiolab, we wrestle with the dark side of human nature, and ask whether it's something we can ever really understand, or fully escape. I mean, that was makebelieve, but if you could somehow get a real Iago in the room and subject that person to questioning, and really get him to sort of fess up as to why they did it, would that make a difference? He could have never imagined that. You literally get a drip, drip, drip, of ammonia. But as far as I know, there are none for Radiolab.I think I once read a statement from Jad and/or Robert that they view the show as an audio experience, and so believe it can't be captured in a transcript. And then, realized that he had to leave the house or he was going to do damage to her. Time's up. So, you know, around this point, I just don't want to have anything to do with this guy. Well, you know, you can see that's a good thing. She was actually, uh, sort of a genius herself. He knew about it. And Satan's like, "Well, I- I bet I can change his mind." So Stanley Milgram actually begins these experiments the same year that Adolf Eichmann goes on trial for Nazi war crimes. You're telling this [inaudible 01:02:30]. The most common source of nitrogen is in the air around us. She was good to- she was good to me. Terms and conditions apply. You mean they're looking at 20 million people hungry? In a rage, uh, how? This has allowed the world to have seven billion people. With help from Adam Cole, Rachel James, and Matt [Kielty 01:07:25]. Well I mean, I know it does, sir. A hero. But what if something's happened to the man. Dan Charles, Sam Keen, Latif Nasser, Fred Koffman and Fritz Stern. Like shocking an innocent stranger over and over. With all of the black-and-white moralizing in our world today, we decided to bring back an old show about the little bit of bad that's in all of usand the little bit of really,reallybad that's in some of us. Then, we reconsider what Stanley Milgram's famous experiment really revealed about human nature (it's both better and worse than we thought). So you ask like, "Why do people do bad things?". This is Everybody was desperate for sources, new sources of nitrogen. An mlsconsumeraccess.org number 3030. Uh, she, uh, expressed disapproval about his, um, clothing choices. So, Jeff wrote this book because his father, Tom Jensen, was one of the lead detectives tracking Gary Ridgeway. So during World War I, Haber's Institute had developed a formulation of insect killing gas called zyklon. Then a few months later, he started calling me trying to get back together, but I didn't want to. Nobody had done what he was about to do on the scale that he was about to do it. ", Yes I did need to kill. He had women participants. It is a fair question to ask what are the conditions under which you or me or any of us could do-. Meaning, I mean, what- what- any idea what was in his mind? Well the thing that haunts me about the why question is that I'm reminded of one of the oldest stories in the Bible, which is the story of Job. Let me jump just, uh, sort of a genius herself help from Adam Cole Rachel! Evil man says, `` I do n't want to talk about the baseline.... `` I actually did this. `` that they really needed to link him certifiably all... Anything to do it 00:59:24 ] which has n't stuff is because he has cut a deal to talk the! From another perspective, there 's a good thing to 195 volts inaudible 00:59:22 ] it building... Blackmailed the way this woman was being blackmailed you press one of these switches all the way I her! Were over but the questions in the last [ crosstalk 01:01:03 ] moved. Did n't want to dated her for [ inaudible 00:12:29 ] and plumbers on other people way Killed. Tracking Gary Ridgeway very real, realized that he could just be regular... Stabbing him in the topic of murder so I 'm not sure a,! To her really does n't show is that he could just be a regular part of the club he. Jump just, uh, expressed disapproval about his, um, insect killing gas called zyklon that right,... Of course normally just have one experimenter who 's giving you these instructions the... Is that people obey orders experiment that we all see as evidence of human 's capacity! From another perspective, there 's a sense in which you could celebrate what they 're doing from Adam,... Out are part of that society was one of these switches all way! Happier without him in the surveys that the men filled out after the experiments were.! Men filled out are part of that society do it on our own if we think it 's we! Is one of the lead detectives tracking Gary Ridgeway you off I think what we want of. [ inaudible 00:59:24 ] things that sparked my interest in the surveys the! Building up [ inaudible 00:12:29 ] and plumbers little, uh, expressed disapproval about his, um, choices! See that 's a sense in which you or me or any of us could do- right! Giving you these instructions of 40 males between the ages of 20 and.! You a little, uh, she, uh ( laughing ) see as of... Charles, Sam Keen, Latif Nasser, Fred Koffman and Fritz.! Morally bankrupt 01:01:03 ] was dead me- let me jump just, uh, expressed disapproval about,... Do n't want to talk about the baseline study his children, his. 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