This was her talking out loud, trying to strategize for herself., A few minutes later in Dr Anderson's testimony, they are discussing her Treatment Summary where Dr Anderson describesthis slap of Johnny as Amber "trying to initiate a fight." I think while he's talking, and I'm not trying to be obtrusive with my taking notes. In the conversation, Johnny repeatedlystates that he needs to leave wheneverAmber gets physical and Amberrepeatedlycriticizes Johnnyfor taking that stance. I don't remember that well., Is that, Dr. Anderson, consistent with your understanding that there were no other entries on December 15 or December 17 relating to physical abuse?, There was nothing about physical abuse. It isn't stated directly that that was her question to them, but that would be a fairly common questionin couples' therapy. So my belief is that those are his words., And Mr. Depp, I think you testified about this, but I just want to make sureMr. Depp told you Amber gave as good as she got, correct?. Additionally, she offered some impressions of the couple's relationship and behaviors. It was more that they started into a fight, and I wrote that their process is a back and forth firing at each other.Question (31:08), At any point during the first session, did Ms. Heard interrupt Mr. Depp when he was trying to talk?Dr Anderson (31:15), Yes. Laurel B. Yates, MD, MPH. (I double-checked the recording to make sure that the transcript was rightbecause this wordingseems to indicate that Dr Anderson believed that Amber purposefully tried to start physical fights.). And if she's triggered, she would hit him first.. No Yes Select an available time 9701 SW Barnes Rd, Suite 130, Portland, OR 97225 Wed Jan 18 Thu Jan 19 Fri Jan 20 9:35 am 10:00 am 10:05 am Hi Nanda. It is a common justification for domestic violence and other violence. When the other person responds to a physical assault, is it in self-defense or is it retaliatory? This contributes to a sense that Johnny as an aggressor was not a focus of therapy. Jan 13, 2016 -- This session was discussed during testimony. I transcribed Dr Anderson's testimony that was given via video deposition at the defamation trial and providemost ofthe transcription along with some commentary in this post. And she gave as good as she got. From Dr Anderson's perspective, these individual sessions were part of the couple's counseling: "whether I talked to them or saw them individually or as a couple, it was all in service of couples therapy.". And what is it? Question (40:34), "Did she tell you that he had hit her first, or was she the one who initiated the slap?" Partner abuse is caused by the power imbalance created by patriarchy: thereforeonly men abuse women. I am a mental health therapist. DrAnderson is a long-time couples' therapist based in Los Angeles. I haven't heard it before. This content is not available in your current region. And yet it had escalated to this point. Hamelsays that a key part of designating abuse as mutualis that both partners must behave abusively toward the other to the same degree. You're getting fame from me. Laurel Anderson Phd, a Medical Group Practice located in Los Angeles, CA. And so she was reporting on that.Question (45:57), Then you write: He got aggressive, threatening, didn't touch him, hid in bathroom. What were you referring to there?Dr Anderson (46:09), What she reported to me, which was an improvement that she didn't participate.Question (46:22), So is it fair to say that she told you she did not hit him at that time?, Yes, that's what I believe my notes say. I don't think she denied it, but what I believe from my notes was that she galloped off in a new direction and they continued to talk, and there was no more that Johnny Depp was going to say about what he was reporting. 2005-2023 Healthline Media a Red Ventures Company. There are other therapy notes where Amber accuses Johnny of hitting her at times other than that first accused blow, but Johnny is not present when these accusations are made. I'll include the testimony pertaining to this reported statement below. Click here for the transcription and my analysis of the Sept 26, 2015 conversation. This session was discussed during testimony. And I think he talked about how chaotic it was, how violent it was. 10-Depp v. Heard: Gina Deuters. Healthline Media does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. I didn't include parts of the testimony about things like appointment dates and lengths, butdid include my summary of that information. She hits back and now starts it for pride because father hit her. Would you please tell us what you meant by that?. That's kind of a direct quote. Heard countersued for $100 million.. ", Will she have advantage if she leaves him but files with police for abuse first? Was that a question that she asked you?, Yes. Participants ina study in Georgia, USAwere asked to "read about a psychologically or physically aggressive interaction between a husband and wife." About an inch. Question(59:44), So is it fair to say those are small bruises in more than one place? When. Then last night, Monday, she slapped him as he sat there talking incoherently. Fax. She showed me photos, but she also came in and showed me in person. He had been well controlled, I think, for almost, I don't know, 20/30 years, and both were victims of abuse in their homes, but I thought he had been well controlled for decades. The second best result is Jessica Danielle Anderson age 30s in Los Angeles, CA in the Vermont Square neighborhood. No closed fist. His mother had just died on the 20th.. You said she showed you photos. As a therapist and author of several books about partner abuse I've been following this case for a couple of years and was particularly interested in taking a detailed look at this testimony. April 14, 2022, 7:48 PM Johnny Depp and Amber Heard were both violent, according to the former couple's marriage therapist. I guess what Im trying to say is that to me, her testimony felt biased with her partly somewhat speculative answers. So here we have Dr Anderson testifying that she saw bruising on Amber's face the day after Amber told her that shehit Johnny because he was "talking incoherently" and asked her if she would have an advantage in divorce if she first called police to file a DV report against Johnny. Did she admit it?Dr Anderson (30:30), I don't think she denied it, but what I believe from my notes was that she galloped off in a new directionand they continued to talk, and there was no more that Johnny Depp was going to say about what he was reporting. 2. She threw can at him since home fighting. Heard reported that that's what Mr. Depp said to her at their worst.. Do you know did Mr. Depp talk about his fingertip with you before June 18, 2016?, Click here for the video recording of Dr Anderson's Johnny v Amber Day 3 defamation trial testimony. This was her talking out loud, trying to strategize for herself., "Doctor Anderson, have you ever seen this document before? On the other hand, it is also reasonable to think that Johnny's accusation should have led Dr Anderson to ask lots of follow-up questionsso she could assess what, if any, physical violence is present in this couple and the physical safety of both parties. Oct 24, 2015 -- Phone session. As you already pointed out, I really cannot understand how Dr. Anderson came to the mutual abuse conclusion when she mostly got Ms. Heards version of things. 310-206-6232. For fuller disclaimer see the Policies page. Dr Anderson (28:08)The first line is Ms. Heard talking, saying that Mr. Depp says to her: No one likes you. Amber does not appear to follow-up on it at that time. (More on the details later.). Amber Heard recorded herself treating Depp sadistically is a great way to describe the non-consented recordings Amber made of Johnny during interactions in which she set him up. And he's trying to come to terms with it, and he still loves her and is mourning. Laurel Anderson, PhD is a clinical psychologist who practices at Laurel Anderson, PhD Practice located at 9911 W Pico Blvd in Suite 1070 in Mar Vista, Los Angeles, CA 90035 (Los Angeles County). (It would not be unusual for a DV victim to initially turn attention away from publicly shaming their partner and then tell the truth later. He showed me on June 18, 2016. And from this, that's kind of what that is. It was all about Christmas, and her therapist telling her one thing. Dr Anderson had seen Amber alonetwice in the interim. Dr Anderson is a long-time couples' therapist based in Los Angeles. Dr Anderson appears to have a policy of meeting with each member of a couple separately for an intake session in order to provide an opportunity for each to speak freely about things they may fear bringing up in front of their partner. Andshe slapped him because he was being incoherent in talking about being with another woman." Its good to hear that you found the post interesting and helpful. I think you've described this in the course of your testimony, but I did want to ask you about your sentence: She reported always hitting him back as a point of pride, but admitted that she eventually initiated the hitting herself. Is the she you're referring to, Ms. Heard?Dr Anderson (53:34), And is the him you're referring to, Johnny Depp?Dr Anderson (53:41), "Okay, let's move to the next page, please. So I did what psychologists do, you go through all of those notes and your brain because it's not as if you're not left with a very clear sense of what went on. Their dialogue -- he was cut off a lot. And he tried to deescalate far more than I think she did., During her testimony, Dr Andersondescribed Johnny and Amber's relationship as "mutual abuse.". I know she came in in person to show me., Did she show you photos or did she show you both? I think while he's talking, and I'm not trying to be obtrusive with my taking notes. She can't let him talk -- is my recollection. Sheryl Monaughan 46 reviews # 2 of 1320. But I'm also copying down a word here and there. The location you tried did not return a result. Yes.Question (46:30), Then you write: She threw can at him since home fighting. Please note: comments must be approved before they are published. Dr Anderson describesAmber as talking over Johnny, cutting him off, andbarraging him. Laurel Anderson, PhD, CCN (Los Angeles, CA, USA) - Dr Laurel Anderson, PhD Kristin Andrs, ACNP (Petersburg, VA, USA) - Andrs Wellness Myrto Ashe, MD (San Rafael, CA, USA) - Myrto Ashe, MD - Unconventional Medicine Dette Avalon, FNP (Anchorage, AK, USA) - My Labs for Life & Avalon Health & Wellness The excuse that "I hit them because they disrespected me" is a marker of someone who grossly overreacts and turns to physical violence when they are emotionally hurt. His mother is dead at this point. Depp, 58, is suing the 35-year-old Aquaman star for $50 million for defamation over a 2018 op-ed she wrote about being the survivor of sexual and physical abuse. We can infer from the testimony that Amber didn't take the opportunity when they were in that session together, to counter with any accusations of DV against Johnny. NFL NBA Megan Anderson Atlanta Hawks Los Angeles Lakers Boston Celtics Arsenal F.C. "Dr Anderson(01:03:46). In her intake individual session after the 1st couple's appointment, Amber admits to hitting Johnny, including initiating physical violence on occasion, but says Johnny hit her first: So when she said in terms of physical abuse that he hits her, a no close fist means an open hand slap to me. And if she's triggered, she would hit him first.Question (33:34), When you said that she sometimes hits Johnny first because of pride, what did you mean?Dr Anderson (33:42), She was sensitive to feeling disrespected and a number of other things. May 27, 2016: When Johnny did not agree to her financial demands, she filed for an emergency ex-parte Request for Restraining Order even though he is not in the state and will not be back for an extended period of time. Find a doctor near you. --Hines, D. A., & Douglas, E. M. (in press). QuestionBut before June 18, 2016, did you ever see an injury to Mr. Depps finger?Dr Anderson (01:03:30), Previous Post I'm falling out of love with you. Want to want to divorce? You're a whore. She's reporting just in the first session just how bad the relationship is, just how mean they are to one another. Wow! 4. The content on Healthgrades does not provide medical advice. No discussion of session content during the trial. When one person initiates physical assaults, is it typically in response to intense emotional and verbal abuse and/or controlling behaviors, and not simple to common provocations, such as nagging? Correct? That's kind of a direct quote. Thank you for this insightful & extensive article. The second thing and the way I work is during the intake process. Any underlining that appears in the transcript excerpts is added by me to draw attention to that portion. "Question (41:41)"Did you respond to her? You recall that testimony?, And you were making motions with your fingers., But I was saying multiple I'm not saying one., Right. (458) 232-4831 About Laurel E Anderson is a Clinical Social Work/Therapist , LCSW, and is based out of Eugene, Oregon, United States. "When we were going through Amber's, the incidents where Amber described Mr. Depp being violent, Mr. Depp was not present. There does not seem to be session notes to back up her summary regarding seeing Amber's bruises and pictures of bruising. I don't remember, but I do remember her face.. Next Post , Hi Angela In his book,Gender Inclusive Treatment of Intimate Partner Abuse: A Comprehensive Approach, John Hamel points out that: "The term mutual is ambiguous, with a number of possiblemeanings.". ), Is Dr Andersonexaggerating Johnny's abuses and minimizing Amber's. (I came up with 72 reasons.). As I worked my way through Dr Anderson's testimony, I developed more and more questions about the therapy and this post becamemuch more extensive than I anticipated. Always consult a medical provider for diagnosis and treatment. ", "He was not on the call when she made these allegations, was he?" Help Millions of people find the right doctor and care they need, Get immediate care and visit with providers from the comfort of your home, or anywhere, Urgent care centers can be faster and cheaper for situations that are not life threatening, Doctors and patients discuss the latest medical treatments and health tips, Search prescription drugs for why theyre used, side effects and more, Back and Neck Surgery (Except Spinal Fusion). It's over pretty much. They may have been in other places throughout her body. Why is it So Hard To Recognize Abuse OF Men BY Women as a Problem? Education Laurel Anderson, PhD earned a degree of a Doctor of Philosophy. Dr Anderson's mention of "mutual abuse" got a lot of attention in media after her testimony. If she felt disrespected, if he was going to leave her to deescalate from the fight, she would strike him to keep him there. (This one seems less likely since Dr Anderson says she saw them, but we don't know how close she looked.). . I'm talking. Men are made responsible for their own actions andthe woman's actions. If Dr Anderson assessed that as a possibility, it could explain her not forcing the issue in this 1st session. I wasn't looking to memorize it. Nothing in that next session. He had trouble talking at a similar pace. But she gave as good as she got and she started it. (Name-calling from one party and physical assault from another party could be labelled mutual abuse if the definition gets stretched. We'll leave it to you two to arrange a time.. Dr Anderson is told repeatedly in individual appointments with Amber that there has been, and is, physical violence in the relationship. And my recollection is she came in --- she talked to me by phone, and then came in the next day. It is unclear to me whether Dr Andersonexcuses Amber's behavior oris notingreasons for Amber's behavioras areas of focus for therapy. Philadelphia 76ers Premier League UFC. Additionally,Amber dropped by Dr Anderson's office Dec 17, 2015 to show her bruises on her face (photos and in person). And he's trying to come to terms with it, and he still loves her and is mourning. Andshe says that she hits back and now she starts it and sometimes hits him firstbecause her history is having been violated by her father physically and just out of pride, a lot of things trigger her. Laurel Anderson is a provider established in Los Angeles, California and her medical specialization is Psychologist with a focus in clinical . She believed that she wasn't stupid. When Mr. Depp told you that Amber hit him in the jaw, did Amber respond in any way? She releases a story toPeople magazine. We may view information that she absorbed during their therapy differently than she did because we have had access to these other sources of information. ", "She initiated that one because I think she felt demeaned and threatened." She felt she had to hit him back if he hit her, and so she always did. That's not my language., Turn to page 13 where it says was chaotic, violent. Do you know what Mr. Depp was referring to there?. She started violence. This undermines that validity of Dr Anderson's diagnosis, but let's look further at Dr Anderson's mutual abuse conclusion. By Hamel's standards, Dr Anderson underminesa diagnosis of mutual abuse herself in the very samestatementthat she presents the label: with Ms. Heard, he was triggered andthey engaged in what I saw asmutual abuse. Heard obtained a restraining order against Depp in May 2016 after accusing him of abuse, which he denied, and the pair settled their divorce out of court in 2017. Keep up the good work, Ann. There was some testimony from the London trial that was under seal, so she may have presented this story there and it wasn't made public until now.). Amber emailed Dr Anderson on Sept 27, 2015: Hi, Laurel. [For more on what happened on this date:Johnny Depp and Amber Heard May 2016 Domestic Violence Abuse Accusation, What Happened?]. A lot of that conversation is Amber returning time and again to chastising and demeaning Johnny for leavingfights and Johnny trying to get her to see that he must leave when she gets physical. Thank you! The one time that it is noted that Johnny accused Amber of hitting him, it is also noted that Amber didn't deny itand that she aggressively changed the subject. Im wondering if Dr. Anderson knew about the apparent diagnosis or diagnosed it herself during the time she worked with Ms. Heard, because if either of that is the case Im left wondering why she believed Ms. Heards versions without seemingly double checking? Partly somewhat speculative answers statement below, the incidents where Amber described Mr. Depp told you that hit! Hit her, and So she always did is she came in the transcript excerpts is added by me draw... 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