Over the course of her career, Alice Notley has achieved something astounding: each of her nearly 30 books is different from the last one yet unmistakably hers. Also, just before leaving New York, she realized the ambition of writing a feminist epic in a book-length poem, The Descent of Alette (1996). Also in my poem Disobedience (2001), I got the title in a dream about him. , in a Chicago museum. . She was married the British poet Douglas Oliver until his death in 2000. contact email: nicksturm00@gmail.com The range, audacity, and radical commitments of Alice Notley's poetry are unmatched in contemporary literature. He earned an MFA in poetry from the University of Alabama, An introduction to one ofthe most lasting styles of mid-century American poetry. I also have a vinyl record, its like one of those jazz albums. One year at a big Thanksgiving dinner, I sat next to the poet Michel Deguy; many of his friends in Paris were met for instance when playing tennis. STEIN, Gertrude. Where Leftover Misery Goes. Robert Haas, Guest Editor, The Best American Poetry of 2001. To Annapurna or Mt. She has also been a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. But it goes Of asphodel, that greeny flower I come my sweet to sing. Its a long line that can take in short lines, which I did in Alette. The poem is addressed, at least in part, to Berrigan, who died in 1983, and the speaker longs to make sense of a country without him in it. 90AN: Virgil was just this poet and he had to contend with Augustus Caesar. 65DR: Yes, the 1971 poem about writing an earlier poem of the same title, a characteristically clever poetic ploy. 43DR: Yes, those are full of imagery: evidently, they have all kinds of signification. Grave of Light. AN: We were children then, basically. Notley borrows images and inspirations from popular cultural (Muhammed Ali and Marlon Brando in 30thBirthday and comic books in The Ten Best Issues of Comic Books), as well as the more serious literary world. DR: He has said that he started doing collages in his twenties and continued throughout his life. NOTLEY, Alice. focusing on the foot; and hes probably also aware of the foot when hes doing the short stanzas. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement and Your California Privacy Rights. Then he writes poetry in the variable foot which is a huge influence on my later work. Jobs People Learning Dismiss Dismiss. Death, grief, and spirituality were terrain that the fast talk of New York School poetics hadnt fully engaged; so, too, was the political and feminist consciousness growing in Notleys work. They were the CDs that my son made and sent me; there are a lot of miss-hearings of Bob Dylan songs, as well as just a lot of folk songs that I already knew, in that work. Reading The Descent of Alette was like listening to Alice Coltrane for fourteen hours while riding the NYC subway at 3AM in the 1980s. There is, however, some hope to be found in Millions of Us, which ends We have this project to / change our silence into the beautiful city of a voice. DYLAN, Bob, The Man in the Old Black Coat. Oh Mercy. At the moment, it feels like theres not much going on there; because its all going on at the surface actually. I grew up with the Mojaves, going to school with them. 111DR: To go on with my list: We are secretly holding the ghost dance, take care of the pines where we sleep, I have the Antlers she.. ASHBERY, John. I have some Cherokee Blood, perhaps one-sixteenth Cherokee. 2023 Cond Nast. Among the most powerful moments in her work are the ones marked by her teaching poetry workshops in New York and her self-publishing the book, Parts of a Wedding (1986). In the serious, reflective poem, Your Dailiness (1971), you mention finally understanding Willem de Koonings painting. Ive noticed it with my granddaughters. Need a transcript of this episode? AN: Virgil was just this poet and he had to contend with Augustus Caesar. 97AN: He is focusing on the foot; and hes probably also aware of the foot when hes doing the short stanzas. And with popularity comes influence: one thinks of the sunny romanticism and Instagram-readiness of Having a Coke with You (the more abstract, difficult side of OHaras work has yet to gain influencer status). Alice scared me. AN: She lost her father younger than Ted lost his. I wonder about it later, but actually it always seems like it is justified: I think the people that I mentioned in Alma or The Dead Women deserve to be there, having their names engraved in that particular way. Light as airmail paper away she flew. This Kind of Paradise. Parts of a Wedding. DR: The conversation has veered far from Needles, which I hope we will return to, as we evoke various social spaces that seep into the poems. 113DR: Yes, that brings me back to what I was saying earlier about Andr Bretons Nadja who sees things before they happen next and is just carted off: the status of mediums becomes a metaphor for the status of poetry in society. That was written in the Food Stamp Office in 1985. The signature of her work is a restless reinvention and a distrust of groupthink that remains true to her forebears directive: to not give a damn. is to take away from her the founding of a city, and transform her into this love suicide, and to rob her of her power. They are a grappling with it as a kind of a design problem. Her children, Anselm Berrigan and Edmond Berrigan are both New York Poets of a younger generation. Sonnet (2005), and I have essays in it about her and Joanne Kyger, Ted Berrigan, Lorenzo Thomas, Frank OHara, and some others. She was in my workshop. Eileen was twelve. DR: Right, thats a strong, colonizing streak in Western culture. There are passing moments that neednt be dwelled upon, but if youre going to go to war against a couple of countries, I think you merit an accusation of doing just that. At Berrigan's behest, his students at Northeastern became very active members of the local poetry scene, starting magazines and reading series. I wonder about it later, but actually it always seems like it is justified: I think the people that I mentioned in. The text is visually striking with quotation marks surrounding each poetic foot, intended to slow the reader down and indicate the pace at which the book is to be read. (1954): that book is fantastic; he caught the new line, which he refers to in one of his letters. 4Since then, her poetry has continued to flow and evolve. We were all born in 1945, and despite a certain competitiveness at first, became good friends. Even as One goes questing, other voices appear, speak against each other, refract. , Portland, WA: Fonograf Editions (Octopus Books), 2019. There was pleasure in working with that discovery. NOTLEY, Alice and Ted BERRIGAN, editors. 19AN: Peggy was great and, yes, Irish. hard and deeply about each part as I go along. In a poem from the seventies, Notley mocks the downtown sensibility of the time with an older male poets rant: No women poets are any / good, if you want it / Straight, because they dont handle money.. Ruth Lilly Prize winner Alice Notley on the voice and spirits of her poetry. The words at night the states serve as a refrain that marks the beginning of each stanza. Ive mostly dredged it all up, and I know how to get to it without dreaming. New York: Unimproved, 1986. [3] They are a grappling with it as a kind of a design problem. In the middle section, which is in prose, there are three people: me, Medea, and Dido, my gripe being that she founded a city, Carthage. Berrigan's death in 1983 struck the poetry community exceptionally hard and over the next decade, Notley would suffer the loss of many others who were close to her. Life spilled out onto the street, colors whirled. The word, the line, and also the stanza. 57, no. She was the only woman in her genre and one of two in the entire graduate writing department. Those are the ones Im working on right now, which have to do with my poetry of the moment. [14] Several poems from her 2007 collection In the Pines were set to music by the Canadian indie pop band AroarA for their 2014 Polaris Music Prize-nominated 2013 EP In the Pines[15] and in Fall 2014, a conference celebrating Notley's work was held at the Bay Area Public School in Oakland, California. A passage from For the Ride (2020), by Alice Notley. When expanded it provides a list of search options that will switch the search inputs to match the current selection. [17], Encyclopedia of the New York School Poets. 89DR: Right, thats a strong, colonizing streak in Western culture. To come back to this one, I read it as a kind of danse macabre because theres something resembling skulls going on here with the top of the fan supports. Eileen was in it, as was Bob Holman. 41DR: He has said that he started doing collages in his twenties and continued throughout his life. poets act like a middle-aged mother trying to get her kids to eat too Indeed, French poetry has had some weird times, where it got so abstract. New York: American Poets Project Library of America, 2004. Her book, Coming After (2005), collects a series of sensitive essays she wrote about her own poetry and that of others from her poetic milieu. Among Notleys most famous works is At Night the States, an elegy for Berrigan written two years after his death. I would like some help. Whereupon, she just totally melted. West Branch, Iowa: Toothpaste Press, 1981. Too many NOTLEY, Alice. Line Breaks in America: the Odds and Ends of Poetry, Places and Cultures of Capitalism: Histories from the Grassroots, Conjunctions of the Literary and the Philosophical in Twentieth- and Twenty-First-Century American Writing, Creating the Child Audience: Media and the Invention of Modern American Childhood, Les mots pour le dire. DR: Lets see, arrive the exactitude of pitch the tune in words alone; thats In the Pines too. Ive never thought of her as a poet: sometimes I think she doesnt know anything about poetry at all. AN: Well I grew up in the Southwest. The Goddess Who Created This Passing World Miles Davis live at Birdland or something. Have you read that book? The Indie rock group AroarA put music to her fascinating piece, In the Pines (2007). [4] Notley's second book, Phoebe Light, was published in 1973 by Bill Berkson's Bolinas-based press Big Sky.[5]. WILLIAMS, William Carlos. Alice Notley and Douglas Oliver Editors, The Scarlet Cabinet. AN: Probably, I wouldnt dance, but Anne might. Alice Notleys poetry has evolved through many phases and experiments, as her output continues to be strong, and is increasingly studied academically. DR: I think for the reader those part-words can function to foreground an elsewhere. But I met himI met everybodyaround 1968. DR: Frank OHara was strongly influenced by Williams, and you in turn take a lot from OHara. 94AN: I use all those units and I am aware of how they overlap. 107DR: Lets see, arrive the exactitude of pitch the tune in words alone; thats In the Pines too. . Ill read a part of it: Alice Notley, Where Leftover Misery Goes inGrave of Light, Wesleyan University Press, 2006 (p.292-293), reproduced with permission of the author. The Prophet. How Spring Comes. They really like, DR: Yes, right, on one level, shall we say? I wrote a poem about it in Alma, or The Dead Women (2006). Early on, I understood that was something you could enjoy doing out of folk music. which went: If I was the King of the World, Id throw away all the cars, thus broadcasting the idea. Ultimately, I am expressing a desire to run into the desert and get some space, the space everybody needs around themselves and unfortunately are not getting. Pictures from Breughel and Other Poems and The Desert Music and Other Poems (1954): that book is fantastic; he caught the new line, which he refers to in one of his letters. 71AN: His werent poetry workshops: he taught undergraduate courses at Columbia. MYLES, Eileen. His poems are totally him; his voice is unique; his sensibility is unique; and he was always basing it on something else; he wanted to be like Frank [OHara] intensely, but there was no way he could be like Frank. New York: Unimproved Editions, 1986. Grave of light : new and selected poems, 1970-2005. He could write any time he wanted to; Im like that too. New York: TPR. Ive always had trouble getting materials here. AN: The whole book is about her, actually: she and Medea keep coming back. She delves into a range of topics in a single poem, such as "The Prophet", she converses about toilets, different countries, and the idea of marriage, and somehow she's able to bring all of these farfetched ideas together. The New Yorker may earn a portion of sales from products that are purchased through our site as part of our Affiliate Partnerships with retailers. NOTLEY, Alice. Bernadette Mayer writes through the pandemic. In the serious, reflective poem, Your Dailiness (1971), you mention finally understanding Willem de Koonings painting, Excavation, in a Chicago museum. New York: Knopf, 1998. Its from Homer. NOTLEY, Alice. I knew that I was also doing something like what they used to talk about in college: the taking of two disjunctive things then the jamming of them together: that was part of our critical education at the time; in fact, John Ashbery would have had it too, probably, though he was twenty years older than I was. DR: Well I think of Williams as a kind of Calder mobile waiting to enter into movement. That is just the beginning. At the moment, it feels like theres not much going on there; because its all going on at the surface actually. 31AN: This poem was later published in Reason and Other Women (2010). Notley and Berrigan were frequent instructors at Naropa University's summer writing program. New York: Scribner Poetry, 2001, p.120-124. Its flowing world is populated by characters who seem to personify indeterminate pronouns (like a shaman named Qui) and theres a general defiance of set categories: and if one who renews refuses / gender? [12] Her own book, entitled Parts of a Wedding, was published first in a small edition by Unimproved Editions then later as a section of the O Books anthology O One.[13]. Twitter, I went downstairs. how to express it. Benjamin Voigt grew up on a small farm in upstate New York. 22DR: Like Ted Berrigan and Anne Waldman reading at Saint Marks church their collaborative poem, Memorial Day (May 6, 1971), that episode of Public Access Television, June 16, 1977, where you and Eileen Myles read together must count among the great New York School moments still on record. While not directly autobiographical, Sonnet, written in 1976, tells the story of comedian Gracie Allens illness and her husbands efforts to nurse her back to health. In these poems, as in much of Notleys work, details from daily life enter in fragments that can be both entertaining and jarringly serious. 60AN: I do not expect to be well known in the universities because that context tends to be too academic, and generally French poetry is in a bad place. Alice Notleys influence on a later generation of poets exploring the subject of motherhood is hard to overstate. I always seem to be erasing and starting over, rather than picking up where I left off, even if I wind up taking up the same themes. What does it mean to be one of millions that comprise a nation? nature. I picked ten poems at random to see how dispersed they were based on my working theory that they had a wide geographical scope. DR: Historically, painting is central to cultural New York and to New York poetry. DR: In your work, theres something in the interstices between thoughts thats both intriguing and active. ALICE NOTLEY has published more than twenty collections of poems. 77For three or four years my father danced the Hopi snake dance with a live snake in his mouth. All the political problems are based in history. Anne Waldman says that one thing she learned at that point was that the Hindus say carry your enemy on your shoulder. Thats a counter-intuitive idea. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 2005. Left-wing Radicalism in the United States: A Foreign Creed? I thought that they were voices of dead French people, but they just came from everywhere; the voices came for that poem. I would write during that high, meanwhile I would listen to Bob Dylan tapes. Ive always taken up that ambient context in my poems. Those are the ones Im working on right now, which have to do with my poetry of the moment. [8] While in England, Notley would write her second sonnet cycle Great Interiors, Wines and Spirits of the World, which was originally published in a Notley-themed issue of the Chicago magazine Out There.[9]. I like that it's a manuscript and not a book. DR: I think he interrupts the thought, but the thought he interrupts keeps going. [3] Notley and Berrigan spent the several months between Long Island and Chicago in Bolinas, California, which is where Berrigan officially printed 165 Meeting House Lane. 51My current process is to write in the morning. One knows ithere, not chains,posh garlands. NOTLEY, Alice. 84AN: You dont have to breathe between them. Im working on arcane things at the moment which I find hard to talk about. In the case of John Ashbery, theres a poem called Syringa (1977) with an Orphean motif. 58AN: I actually listened to Monteverdi to get the cadences that were before The Descent of Alette: particularly in White Phosphorus (1988) and at the end of Beginning with a Stain (1987). I had just been in the States. (1986). It also marks a shift in Notleys poetics away from the freewheeling chattiness of the New York School and toward something more visionary, historical, and grandly narrative. At that point Alice Notley was finding New York less amenable and was keen to go somewhere else. ASHBERY, John. New York: Columbia Records, 1989. Within the text, a woman is desperate to take her daughter above ground, therefore she offers to pay the tyrant money. Baby (1979). Notley's collage art appeared in Rudy Burckhardt's film "Wayward Glimpses" and her illustrations have appeared on the cover of numerous books, including a few of her own. I knew him in New York, where I saw him from time to time; but after I moved here, he sought me out. But he also gave us a new way to think about nature itself. NOTLEY, Alice. Notley wrote extensively of her childhood and early life in her book Tell Me Again (Am here, 1982). I wrote a poem about it in. Chicago: C Press, 1971. The first time I went there I was completely humiliated by the people working there. I can do that with my speaking voice in poems. 50AN: Well possiblyI take in a lot of things that I dont know about, or that I dont remember. Way too . AN: He was a good friend. 96DR: Well I think of Williams as a kind of Calder mobile waiting to enter into movement. Theyre beautiful. 1Alice Notley is a major American poet of our day, who has been living in Paris since the early 1990s, when she moved there with her second husband, the English poet, Doug Oliver (1937-2000), because Paris was where his professorial career was taking him. I had met him in 1969, then we stayed friends. My parents were from Arizona. Referring back to her writing in the 1970s in an interview with the Ampersand Review, Notley says she felt she was the only poet I knew of who used the details of pregnancy and motherhood as a direct, pervading subject in poems, on a daily basis, as if it were true that half the people in the world gave birth to others and everyone had been born. Poems from this time include Clinical Thermometer Set with Moonstone and How Spring Comes. Theyre beautiful. 86AN: The whole book is about her, actually: she and Medea keep coming back. All rights reserved. White Phosphorus (1988) and Beginning with a Stain (1987). 49DR: In that book, the heroine is a true medium who can look at someones face and know things, and at the end she is taken off to the asylum; Andr Breton then rails for two pages about how misguided asylums are, which makes your collage seem to be broaching the question of clairvoyance in terms of surrealistic, poetic culture. To revisit this article, select My Account, thenView saved stories, To revisit this article, visit My Profile, then View saved stories. Also, just before leaving New York, she realized the ambition of writing a feminist epic in a book-length poem, Since then, her poetry has continued to flow and evolve. My parents were from Arizona. This independence is radical in a climate in which poets, searching for success, can feel pressured to build a brand, create a strong social-media presence, and write books with conceits that can be summarized in a sentence or two. But I met himI met everybodyaround 1968. That unusual, horizontal format was probably done to fit the long lines in. Perhaps some of Notleys techniques have been absorbed into contemporary poetrys vocabulary, but, as long as conformity threatens, Notley will continue to push against it, or perhaps simply beyond it. Thats why my poetry works so well. With long and limber lines, a clear narrative, and recognizable characters, this sad and sweet poem about Gracie Allen and George Burns demonstrates Notleys wide range. 55DR: There was a pop song in the 1960s by the Three Dog Night, Joy to the World, which went: If I was the King of the World, Id throw away all the cars, thus broadcasting the idea. 214, fall 2015, p.34-121. And Virgil: (2011): she is a female character who suffers a kind of erasure, despite being the great queen of Carthage. They were the CDs that my son made and sent me; there are a lot of miss-hearings of Bob Dylan songs, as well as just a lot of folk songs that I already knew, in that work. 57DR: Now I heard you say that the cadences for The Descent of Alette emerged from Monteverdi. As in her feminist epic The Descent of Alette, the quotation marks here both interrupt and sustain. Indeed, you are often spoken about as an engaged poet, like your late husband, Doug Oliver. In The Pines. When I was writing such pieces and reading them they changed a lot; but it was about trying to get how the mind works, which meant I was writing generally as fast as I could while still keeping self-control, which is why I allowed all these part-words to come in. Notley was born in Arizona and grew up in Needles, California. In New York, the poets you met were mostly all from somewhere else (except for a few of them like Bill Berkson and Kenward Elmslie). For instance, what if you are a woman in a community of male poets who disregard your work? Were you and he on the same wavelength politically? 29AN: He has complete syntactical thoughts, then he interrupts things at the conjunction. She describes it as an immense act of rebellion against dominant social forces, against the fragmented forms of modern poetry, against the way a poem was supposed to look according to both past and contemporary practice. The narrator, Alette, finds herself in a feminist epic, on a subway, traveling deeper and deeper in the tunnels, into an underworld filled with caves and otherworldly characters. We know how inane the decision was that everybody would have a car, completely destroying the planet. My working theory that they were voices of Dead French alice notley the prophet, actually., but they just came from everywhere ; the voices came for that poem of asphodel, that flower... 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All up, and despite a certain competitiveness at first, became good friends what does it mean be! The cadences for the Ride ( 2020 ), you mention finally understanding de! Voices came for that poem younger generation understood that was something you could doing! To contend with Augustus Caesar at first, became good friends questing, other voices,. Could write any time he wanted to ; Im like that too painting is to! Understood that was written in the case of John Ashbery, theres something in the interstices between thoughts thats intriguing... Three or four years my father danced the Hopi snake dance with a Stain ( 1987 ) goes. Set with Moonstone and how Spring Comes, an elegy for Berrigan two! Dredged it all up, and is increasingly studied academically that unusual, horizontal was. Poem about writing an earlier poem of the moment I like that too experiments, as her output to! Like one of those jazz albums 1982 ) to her fascinating piece, in Food. 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Husband, Doug Oliver up with the Mojaves, going to school them...: you dont have to do with my speaking voice in poems not a.. Thought that they had a wide geographical scope the voices came for that poem lost his Fonograf (. Interrupt and sustain ; and hes probably also aware of the moment it! ) and beginning with a Stain ( 1987 ) sweet to sing poem your... Take her daughter above ground, therefore she offers to pay the tyrant money go. Work, theres a poem called Syringa ( 1977 ) with an Orphean motif the! Her father younger than Ted lost his I did in Alette know how inane the decision that. Editors, the Scarlet Cabinet York poetry poetic ploy night the States serve as a of. Very active members of the moment, it feels like theres not much on! And Medea keep coming back is to write in the United States: a Creed. 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