A REAL currency must be low risk+ zero (better subzero) return+good liquidity, and all those three things MUST go together. Probably not, because life is better and wealthier when you arent living a life of crime. That is wrong. Bitcoin finally surpassed $40K and topped at $41,940 on Jan 8. I did Control F, and verified that MMM never used the word Ponzi or Pyramid, and in fact Vijay, you were the first person to bring up the Ponzi Scheme topic, and then you linked some article (which I did not care to read). Absolutely. So, how is Bitcoin better or different? Rule of thumb is never put everything in one basket. MMMers have unplugged from debt, but putting all faith in the designers of The Matrix seems ironic. This is so weak. , Umm, you do know that only about half of the worlds population even has access to the internet, right? Check out RaiBlocks and other DAG-based coins. Will it help me achieve my financial dreams quicker? Also if youre going to start the whole not everywhere is like the U.S. argument, then do you think a third world farmer growing coffee beans is going to want Starbucks zapping some btc to his iPhone to pay him? That could be securely moving value around, but could be many other things. meep er Probably because it was the first and still the largest blockchain based tech, a lot of capital has gone into Bitcoin mining equipment. Either way I dont think youve fully connected the dots as to why it has value. January 3, 2018, 4:28 pm. January 2, 2018, 6:47 pm. Stop Ironing Shirts He is typing in capital letters to draw attention to specific words. Meanwhile, I studied investing starting at age 18, which allowed me to retire at 30 (16 years ago) Then I studied Bitcoin for months, digging to the bottom: there's nothing there. months) so other storage mechanisms are needed. Berkshire Hathaway Class A has paid out a dividend only once in 1967, and Warren Buffet has regretted even that. I doubt you really believe this is going to overthrow all of our current financial system. Satoshi, while extreme in his views, watched the housing market collapse due to the fraudulent behavior of the banks and the government that backs them. How can people who are so good about thinking outside the box when it comes to retirement, are so bad at thinking outside the box when it comes to new technologies? Ignore this utterly irrational FUD and embrace the digital world. And if you havent been digging into the cryptocurrency world much, it gets way weirder than this. However, I go back to my main point Anyone who tells you they know how this experiment ends is already wrong. Do you practice illegal tax evasion as your primary wealth strategy? January 4, 2018, 9:20 am. I think its more likely that youre helping launder money acquired in IRS scams and other criminal activity. Funny, I was just recently approached to put up a sponsored post talking-up the virtues of Bitcoin, all for the REAL CASH reward of $100 (via PayPal of course.) Staying on the sidelines unless you have some special knowledge of when exactly the the bubble will pop. Great post. Regulation by SECI doubt theres any way to know the innovation that has been stifled, the small companies which never existed, the middle class growing local investment missed, because theres no cheap seat at the table. You may be smart enough to recognize why one currency is going up and another isnt and to not go all-in on something. I agree with some parts of this article and this some parts are a bit ridiculous. Blockchain technology may do that too. Besides, how do you get BTC in the first place? January 5, 2018, 7:21 pm, *cough* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania. Gotta! Altcoins also stand to disrupt several huge, sleepy industries and solve real world problems. Although I do get where MMM is trying put an emphasis on the difference in investing and speculation. I would say that I am above it all, but I have to admit, there are days when I get caught up and am tempted to get in the game (if only to short it!). I keep thinking of that movie where the actor says Explain it to me like Im a 2 year old.. Gold is not an investment, but it is an excellent form of money. Further more rants about the skyrocketing cost of housing and how many people cannot afford their mortgages, with further people saying mortgage payments wont matter because those people can just sell for more when the payments become a problem. Even a significant percentage would be really stupid. Cryptos appear to be the latest mania and in its current form will most certainly suffer the fate of the other manias that have happened in the past. No. January 3, 2018, 4:51 pm. I just wish it had come out before the holidays so I could have just pointed family members to it instead of attempting (unsuccessfully!) This is exactly what I was thinking. Is having 1-2% of my overall portfolio in cryptocurrency stupid? No, not to me. And nothing that can go on forever, does. 1. This is a known bug in our operating system, and we have designed some parts of our society to protect us against it. Be careful what you wish for. January 3, 2018, 7:13 am. You all and Mr. Money Mustache are the ones that are collectively insane as you watch a technology that has the potential to benefit humanity possibly more than anything in history Pass you by as you are too blind in your indoctrinated social normative lenses to ever see the big picture. Jul 25, 2021 164 comments Gox, Bitfinex, and the various wallets and exchanges that have been hacked). Started by kayvent. This bubble is going to break, the environmental waste is awful, and CNBC legitimizing this as investing with ticket symbols must stop. It is called being informed about reality.. Anyone whos ever had to wire money between banks will appreciate the quick transaction times and low (or zero) fees of these coins. Adeney lives in Longmont, Colorado, and contends that most middle-class individuals can . Look at all the nations that proposed a EUR based oil exchange, all overthrown (no, not saying those were shining examples of humanity but the prioritization is simply correlated enough). That means an implied 100% cash-on-cash return every year. :). A lot of jobs today exists only to oversee things. Read through this article for the contrarian view of things: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4134745-bitcoins-path-1-million-bubble-bursting-anytime-soon, Mr. Money Mustache There is some very interesting technology being developed in the cryptocurrency space right now, so be careful about throwing out the baby with the bath water. They are very valuable and the price is sure to rocket! Plus the addiction and how crypto has started to drain people of their savings and life. Lastly if you still are convinced that your fingernails and bitcoins are synonymous then you may want to contact the Chicago mercantile exchange (CME) or the CBOE as they both recently added bitcoin futures contracts for investors. You could always follow the Long Island Iced Tea model: 1. If I am able to speculate successfully and retire sooner, I would hope that the other Mustachians would cheer me on. Seems to Petes point, theres an awful lot of marketing push behind something that has dubious use cases and limited long term value. When the internet / electric / grid is down, I cant pay him via my iphone and at the moment, the kid wants cash. Those who are in it are using it for speculative purposes, not as a currency. Big banks get crushed, millions of americans were underwater on their homes and forces to foreclose and then they get a bailout from the US of A paid for by yours truly, the average american tax payer. 8. Ms99to1percent I was excited to get in on the IFCO (Initial Fingernail Clipping Offering) but the price had already shot up while I was reading. and we live in the middle of it. That capability simply did not exist before blockchain-based currencies. Take a look at the German Mark after WW1. So, Bitcoin is a protocol invented to solve a money problem that simply does not exist in the rich countries, which is where most of the money is. Well thats all due to the crypto currency craze. And its back to 12.5K in two days. The Money Mustache Community Learning, Sharing, and Teaching Investor Alley Our Crypto Investment strategy (slow and steady investing for the win) . That is an implied 2% or so long-term return, and probably a negative one after inflation. He pulled this off by living on a small percentage of his income as a software engineer, and diligently . Like every state currency, it derives its worth out of the fact that the state says you can *always* pay your taxes with it It certainly is for day traders in short term. Not going to do this with you.. Im thrilled to see the godfather speak on this. It just means that some price levels are reasonable, and some are not. The Vigilante So now that youve got an truly immutable public data store, what do you do with it? Then you have to pay a ton of interest to borrow it, and be lucky with the timing. This is the greatest use of human energy and capital the world has ever seen. If you were setting up your portfolio from scratch today, would you buy $500K of GBTC with it? And of course, the purpose of this whole aside is that I want to establish credibility with you, so you will give this article some consideration. Hearing about every move Bitcoin makes is already more annoying than hearing about the DJIA ever referred to(when we have the S&P500). The fact that Mr Money Mustache, one of THE most influential FIRE movement supporters, has made a post on itseeing how many financially illiterate people are out there is mind boggling. Pure Air and a bunch of IOUs that it will eventually default on. Pure utilitarian arguments have an implied slippery slope attached to them, and the description of benefits and priorities are largely arbitrary. However about 6 months ago, I withdrew all my stocks and threw it in altcoins. And even with dividend paying stock, most people arent really relying on the dividend to turn a profit. OK Vijay but then why do you and others get so angry when some of us say we dont want to invest in it? This is not characteristic of a healthy financial system (particularly so many years into a global recovery), but rather a zombie one thats been artificially propped up since the financial crisis. When you have a more efficient and fluid system that has zero manipulation from individuals, who will go back to a corrupt and manipulative system as it exists today? On the other hand valuation of bitcoin has nothing to do with merits like this.What I dont understand is how spinning off a crypto currency XRP plays a role is this (please shed some light if you can). Ask me Anything! MMM eludes to the crux of the issue surrounding the long term sustainability of the current generation of cryptocurrencies when he discusses the fact they are heavily unregulated and difficult to track for governments (everywhere). People are likely to disagree on whether this is a good thing depending on their worldview. Sure the BTC reward goes down, but the USD/BTC price keeps rising offsetting the lower reward for the time being. They probably also didnt like my stated aversion to cyptocurrency and desire to stick with boring real estate. Long time reader, first time commenter (ha). Mr. if they dont open one day, the fragile world crumbles. While I agree with your sentiment about Bitcoin I have been echoing similar warnings to friends and family since its mid-2017 breakout to $2k I think several other cryptos are definitely deserving of a portion, albeit small, of an investment portfolio. Finally, someone in here who understands economics and not just personal finance! The Internet has become insufferable with all of these Bitcoin Clowns. Oh my gosh, get out! Or the cars people use to haul that stuff then. Its hard to quantify the lost energy and human potential, but the cost is real. Reply. Not saying thats why he wrote the article, but just that there are certain advantages to being an Internet Celebrity, one of which is that everything you write turns to gold, er, uh, bitcoin, er, uh, whatever. Evidently you werent invested in Pets.com and other rising stars with no hope of ever getting profitable. EvoInvestor Say I trade you a car for 1 bitcoin on Jan 8. And regarding Bitcoin as currency, it is already not usable as that TODAY. FullTimeFinance One place where coin mining could considered reasonable is during winter in a home that is already heated with electric resistance heaters. You basically have to first deposit a lot of money (as a reserve) onto bitcoin exchange sites, which themselves are only loosely regulated and would probably become insolvent if bitcoin crashed. So if you are buying and holding, say, Google stock, you are just speculating. How many here have switched from Mortgage Fast Pay to Money Market? Mr. Money Mustache Early Retirement through Badassity Start Here About Random MMM Recommends Forum MMM Classics Mr. Money Mustache View: Fancy Magazine | Classic Blog Welcome New Readers! Blockchain is simply a nifty software invention (which is open-source and free for anyone to use), whereas bitcoin is just one well-known way to use it. This way, whichever direction GBTC goes, you wont be in a regretful situation. Its speculation, pure and simple. When evaluating investment bubbles, it means looking at where everyone is throwing their money no matter how many billions and being willing to say Bull. This black one here is only $1,000,000,000,000,000. Personally, I think this article shows that Mr Adeney has had his blog hijacked by the Anti-satoshi ;). January 5, 2018, 7:01 am. No. Ryan Thomas Educate yourself on why Bitcoin and Blockchain cannot be split up. The account is now worth over $500k, but the high was closer to $700k. Fiat currency has neither. China is also a leader in renewables space. And there are so many investors who buy Bitcoin without even understanding what Blockchain iswhich is just scary. ), You write that things that gold, tulip bulbs, Beanie Babies, 1999 dotcoms without any hope of a product plan, pre-construction pricing Toronto condominiums you have no intent to occupy or rent out, and rare baseball cards are not investments.. The supply of Bitcoin is known perfectly, whereas nobody knows how fast your fingernails grow. Youve made a great profit, and you can play with that $28k. 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